Click here for Paul Krugman's Substack entry for April 11, entitled "Talking with Lisa Graves." He says:
Lisa Graves is a legal activist and the author of a remarkable and terrifying book, Without Precedent,
that documents the assault on democracy via the story of John Roberts. I
spoke with her about how America has come to its current state, and
what the future may hold.
"A remarkable and TERRIFYING book" indeed. It's a frightening interview about how Bush Jr. stole the election in 2000 with a great deal of help from Clarence Thomas and his wife, Ginni, and the Heritage Foundation. (There were other factors too; Google "Brooks Brothers riot"). Two Supreme Court vacancies came up immediately for Bush to fill. John Roberts became chief justice, and Samuel Alito was appointed as an associate justice.
Then came the case of Citizens United:
a 5-to-4 decision issued by the Roberts Court, where Clarence
Thomas sat on that case — the fifth vote, in essence, on that case —
even though a billionaire named Harlan Crowe had staked his wife Ginni
Thomas with $500,000 to launch a group to take advantage of the decision
to come in Citizens United, to allow these so-called C4 groups under
the IRS code to spend unlimited money to influence elections. And
Clarence Thomas did not recuse himself from that case, and even had the
audacity to write a concurring opinion saying that disclosure of money
being spent by these groups — who the sources are — would chill speech,
meaning money, like the money to his wife, which he did not disclose.
And so that decision unleashed a tsunami of cash into our elections,
where candidates are routinely outspent by the outside groups. And this
has given a disproportionate, and extraordinarily disproportionate,
power to billionaires in our society, in America, to secretly influence
elections in order to get people into positions of power to advance
their interests, like the huge tax breaks that Donald Trump signed into
law at the behest of Charles Koch and his groups in the first term of
President Trump. And again, similarly, in this second term of Donald
Trump, the extension of those deeply unfair and destructive tax cuts for
the richest few.
Krugman elaborates on the results of the Citizens United decision:
Citizens United was a decision that basically asserted that
under the First Amendment, money is speech, and that outside groups that
were not coordinating with the candidate — so-called independent
expenditures — they could spend unlimited money, and they were not
subject to the rules that the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, BiCRA,
otherwise known as McCain-Feingold, sought to put in place to deal with
this sort of what they were calling soft money — money that was outside
the campaigns that was not required to be disclosed.
So
Citizens United and its progeny — a case called Speech Now vs. FEC —
that’s what spawned these super PACs, where you have enormous money
going into PACs, political action committees. That money can be
million-dollar, even $10 million checks. For the super PACs that are
operating in a particular way, they have to disclose their donors. But
for the C-4 groups, which are these other nonprofits, they don’t have to
disclose their donors.
And so what it’s created is a situation in
which, on the one hand, a billionaire can now give millions to a super
PAC in a way that they could not give directly to the candidate. They
couldn’t just write a check to the presidential candidate or
congressional candidate. They can do it now in an unlimited amount
through the super PACs. And then separately, they can give tens of
millions of dollars — unlimited money — secretly to a C-4 group that
runs so-called issue ads. Those are the ads that say vote for or against
this person, or call them because you oppose their policy. But it’s
really obviously about influencing the election, and that’s the dark
money that’s being spent in our elections.
Krugman says "The Times found that 300 billionaires represented 19% of all campaign financing in the 2024 cycle."
He goes on to say:
Wow. So if we look at someone like Peter Thiel, who basically
bought a Senate seat for JD Vance. I don’t actually know the number, but
the numbers we see may actually be only the tip of the iceberg.
Graves explains the financing shell game:
So for example, the Republican State Leadership Committee,
RSLC, has created a subgroup to target state Supreme Court races. And
it’s the sole funder of the subgroup. So when the subgroup discloses who
funds it, it’s disclosing its parent organization. So it doesn’t
disclose how much of that money is from Leonard Leo, or how much of that
money is from Charles Koch or Koch Industries or the oil companies that
goes into the bigger pool of funds.
And so there are all
these ways in which I believe that most of the money that’s being spent
in our elections in America is not disclosed. It’s not disclosed under
the campaign finance reports of the candidates, of the party, or the
super PACs, because it’s the C-4 money that is most potent, because it’s
the vehicle that allows them to hide the true funders — the biggest
funders of these operations.
She goes on to explain the corruption of the nonprofit infrastructure in the U.S. -- "an enormous part of the U.S. economy" -- and how "a significant portion of that nonprofit spending is going into policy
operations, operations that describe themselves as informing the public,
as public education — not public schools, but educating the public."
Nonprofit institutions are funded by the fossil fuel industry:
And so it’s a massive distortion machine. We sort of swim in a
political environment, a political and social environment, which has
been greatly influenced, swayed by the amount of so-called research that
these groups are putting out in order to advance the industry’s
interests.
And this is part of what’s known as a third-party
strategy that the tobacco industry really helped pioneer in America,
where they were trying to fend off efforts to regulate tobacco and its
cancer-causing effects. And so they didn’t want to run ads, for example,
saying “tobacco companies say tobacco is just fine” — although they did
say smoking was good for you — but they put forward doctors and, you
know, so-called studies saying it was safe, even though the actual
independent science was showing that there were carcinogenic effects in
some instances of smoking.
And so that third-party tactic is what
the fossil fuel industry and its CEOs are using. They don’t think that
people would believe them if they ran an ad saying, “Hey, I’m Charles
Koch. Trust me, all this fossil fuel money that’s making me the 23rd
richest person in the world — it’s great for everyone. The planet isn’t
on fire, and we can solve everything.” You know, instead, what happens
is they fund these groups that do bus tours and they lobby Congress, or
they do all these influence campaigns. And the objective is to protect
the industry basically at all costs.
Krugman comments:
Right. And there’ve been some studies— I think by Oreskes and
others—that demonstrated how among the alleged scientific papers that
disputed the consensus about climate change, the percentage funded by
the fossil fuel industry was basically 100. That this is an entirely
manufactured thing by special interests. So you place a big emphasis on
fossil fuels. Tobacco is kind of where the strategy begins. But fossil
fuels are, in your view, at the root of this perversion of the U.S.
system.
Graves agrees, and goes on to say:
The fossil fuel industry is the most lucrative field of
business in the world. And they’ve made so much money, you know, selling
fossil fuels. And there’s a real intolerance for any limit. And in
fact, when you look at a lot of the groups that have been funded in the
US that are part of attacks on the EPA, attacks on the power of the
Environmental Protection Agency to regulate carbon, when you trace those
back, you can see money from the coal industry and coal barons. You see
money from the natural gas—otherwise known as the methane
gas—producers, the frackers and the compressing companies for those
fracking for the gas and oil industries.
And you can see
within that what’s happened: a number of these big CEOs — for example,
the largest seller of compressed gas compressors in the United States
for these big fracking operations — they’re paid an enormous amount for
running these companies. And then they create a nonprofit that then
fuels groups like the Heritage Foundation, American Enterprise
Institute, and these other entities that are at the forefront of trying
to stop congressional efforts to regulate carbon or to mitigate climate
change.
Krugman comments how in the '70s oil crisis, part of the government response was price controls and a windfall profits tax on the oil companies; crude instruments that didn't function well, but still, unthinkable today. Graves responds by explaining the Powell Memo in 1971:
... just months before Powell was nominated by Nixon to the Supreme
Court. And in that memo, the Powell memo, he wrote that American
businesses needed to play a greater role in American society. And I
think this is a laughable assertion. He asserted in 1971 that no one had
less influence on public policy in America than the American
businessman. That wasn’t true then. It’s certainly not true now.
And
that memo helped spawn a new generation of investment in trying to
capture these levers of power. And so demi-billionaires like Richard
Mellon Scaife and others rose to that call to create this apparatus to
oppose government regulation. For example, Scaife helped fund some of
these early think tanks in the 1970s. But another key figure in that
time was Charles Koch, when he had just inherited his father’s company
in the late 1960s. He was very involved in these early right-wing
movements. He personally, actively objected to those price controls. He
started seeding groups in the Libertarian Party, an adjacent movement,
before he ultimately tried to co-opt the Republican Party and move this
into the mainstream of that Republican Party agenda, you know, with the
help of Reagan, who had deeply antagonistic views toward regulation.
When
you look at that period, that’s when Charles Koch, as a young man,
claimed that America under Nixon was basically socialist because we
dared to have any price controls. And then, in response to the efforts
of Congress and the White House to address the oil crisis and the
challenges that America was facing in terms of the energy crisis and the
like, Charles Koch actually opposed the creation of a Department of
Energy for the United States of America. He objected to that. And so
those are very early parts of this movement that most people don’t know
happened. You know, it’s obviously before Google. It was a bit below the
radar. But that helped seed decades now — the 80s, 90s, the 2000s into
the present moment — where those initial investments really took hold.
And
I guess the key in some ways to their success is that I always describe
Charles Koch as being the deepest, longest, most enduring funder of
this effort to attack the regulation of carbon and the like. And he’s
been at it now for, you know, going on 50, coming up on 60 years,
really.
Krugman comments that "the billionaires got smarter and learned to play the long game," and "It’s the power of long-term thinking, except not on behalf of the human race."
Graves responds:
Yeah. It’s astonishing, because you can see there’s all these
different assessments of progressive funding versus so-called
conservative funding, and there has not been the type of investment in
this infrastructure to push these fringe ideas into the mainstream on
the left. It is just not how the funding works on the left. The right
has billionaires and families of billionaires and children of children —
proto-billionaires, you know, multi-multimillionaires back in the day —
whose families have been at this for decades now. You can see it
through the foundation work they’ve done, and how the different
foundations have spawned other foundations.
And so on the
right you see a very deep investment in moving these fringe ideas into
reality, into legally binding rules for us, including to the Supreme
Court. And on the left — for example, on the Supreme Court, or in the
middle to the left there — there was this effort to not capture the
Supreme Court, to try to put people on the court who had a reputation
for fairness, and not because they were going to be someone who was
driving the law to the left. But the right has been really disciplined
in this court-capture plan, along with its plan to capture these other
levers of power.
Krugman mentions the power of unions to resist such efforts, and how their power has eroded; Graves says
But can I add in there? Because part of what we saw was how
Reagan came in with this hostility to unions, even though he’d led the
Screen Actors Guild. He came in with this real effort to try to break
the unions. And then that was met, ultimately, in the longer run, with
big funding from these big foundations, including the Bradley
Foundation, which had one of the biggest reserves in the country, and it
was targeting unions to break unions, but also to break their political
power, their political influence.
But when I traced this
back, this so-called “right to work” movement — which is not about the
right to work, but the right to break unions in these states — what you
can see in the historical record is one of the early funders of that
effort was Fred Koch. Charles Koch’s father, in the 1950s, was one of
the big backers of this long-term campaign to limit the power of unions,
the power of people to organize in unions, and also to basically try to
break their political power.
On the power of the billionaires, Graves comments:
And so what’s happened is we have this political class of super-elite,
super-rich people who have extraordinary sums at their disposal. So, for
example, one of the richest men in America and in the world is a guy
named Jeffrey Yass. He got rich on TikTok and also on these super-fast
trades on Wall Street. He’s the richest guy in Pennsylvania. When he
drops $1 million, $10 million in a race — let’s just put that ballpark
out — it’s a huge sum, but from the standpoint of a dollar per dollar,
the ratio is the equivalent of an ordinary American buying a coffee and a
bagel once a week. It’s just nothing to them.
The article goes on at length about so much more: the fact that the fossil fuel industry, in terms of influence, is being rivaled by "the new rich" -- the tech industry and the tech billionaires, like Peter Thiel; crypto money, "the darkest of the dark money"; the quack medicine industry, and RFK Jr.'s MAHA movement -- "Make America Healthy Again" -- with its selective science; the rise of the influencer culture in the U.S.; the rejection of vaccines, and how RFK Jr. became very wealthy -- "as he took more and more aggressive positions against vaccines, how much more he himself was paid" -- $500,000 a year from the nonprofit group he was leading, attacking vaccinations. Graves tells of how John Roberts has orchestrated the destruction of large parts of the Voting Rights Act, and how the Act will be damaged even further by a case that will be decided this summer.
But what people don’t realize is that John Roberts cut his teeth on
trying to block the extension of the Voting Rights Act, trying to block
the repair of the Voting Rights Act after his mentor, Bill Rehnquist,
helped destroy a significant component of that act, which was designed
to prevent the dilution of Black votes.
Krugman: Right.
Graves:
And so you have a person who was chosen for the Supreme Court not
because they thought he would be fair, but because they thought he would
be a ringer. And he spent his early days in the Reagan administration
as a Reagan revolutionary at the top of the Justice Department, trying
to block the renewal of the Voting Rights Act with the amendments to
overturn a Supreme Court decision. He spent time at the White House
counsel’s office for Reagan, trying to block civil rights enforcement.
He has devoted his life to advancing this very far-right agenda.
And he was someone who, when he was nominated, was not met with any of the howls of “No More Souters,”
which was the sort of campaign mantra from the Federalist Society of
not wasting a Supreme Court seat on a fair judge. And so after Roberts
was confirmed, Bush nominated his counsel, a Republican lawyer named
Harriet Miers, to the bench. Robert Bork and these other right-wing
leaders screamed that this was a betrayal of their movement, to appoint a
Republican lawyer and not a loyalist. And so her nomination was pulled
down and Alito was swapped in, and again, “No More Souters” was not
chanted at him.
And so the Republicans were able to secure a
court that is now operating like a lever of power, aiding Donald Trump,
aiding the Republican Party at almost every turn. And that includes the
counter-constitutional ruling John Roberts orchestrated in 2024, giving
Donald Trump unprecedented immunity from criminal prosecution. And then
he and his fellow Republican appointees married that decision with 24
rulings last year on the emergency docket, the shadow docket, basically
telling Donald Trump he could go forward with extreme actions, extreme
assertions of presidential power, that were contrary to the
Constitution, statutes, regulations, but that he could proceed over the
temporary restraining orders that lower court judges had issued. And so
this court, in my view, is out of control. It’s in desperate need of
reform. And John Roberts is helming this court that is on a path of
destruction against our rights.
Krugman then asks her to explain the Supreme Court's "shadow docket":
So what most people don’t know is that the Supreme Court has
about 8,000 to 9,000 petitions every year, and it only takes about 60
cases. It chooses 60 cases. These are all matters of discretion. They’re
not required to take any of these cases unless it’s a state versus
state case. And so the court is taking fewer cases, and it’s basically
creating a docket where one year it’s about destroying the separation of
church and state, another year is destroying reproductive rights,
another year it’s destroying regulation of industry and carbon.
And
then it has this emergency docket, which typically has been used for
death penalty appeals. Someone claims at the last minute, “Please stop
my execution,” and the court will issue a ruling, without full briefing,
without oral argument, on an emergency basis. That emergency docket has
been deployed by John Roberts and his fellow appointees as a shadow
docket to basically change the law in America in significant ways over
this past year in terms of policies on immigration policy, or allowing
these mass firings to go on, allowing the gutting of funding for
sciences and more. The court has allowed those things without having
full briefings, without having a full opinion on it. They’ve just
reversed the decisions of lower court judges.
And it’s significant in many ways because—as Judge Michael Luttig has talked about—this
is a huge lack of transparency, a way in which the court is operating
outside the bounds. But also, it’s the case that in almost every one of
those shadow docket cases — where, again, no oral argument, no real
public discussion, no opinion written — the court has intervened and
overturned lower court rulings that temporarily blocked Trump, after
those lower courts made factual findings that people would suffer
irreparable harm and that under the law they were likely to succeed.
What the Roberts Court is saying is: “you’re not likely to succeed. We are basically pre-reversing those cases.”
Then they discuss the 2024 "immunity decision":
Krugman: So now let’s talk about the immunity issue. There’s been a lot
of stuff in this since 2004 that is really horrifying. But the immunity
for Trump is kind of the most glaring of them. And just tell us about
that for a second.
Graves: Yes.
This case that was issued by John Roberts — it was a 6-to-3 decision
right before the election in 2024, and it invented immunity from
criminal prosecution for a president. That’s never been the law in
America. Ever. Not since the beginning. And that’s why there was a
reaction to that decision, in part to have the introduction of the No
Kings Act, because that immunity decision basically made Donald Trump
king-like in his powers, by saying that he and any future president
could not be held accountable for any crimes they committed.
When
John Roberts wrote that opinion, he basically effectively pardoned
Trump for the crimes he had committed. But he larded that opinion with
additional assertions, trying to set the pardon power beyond any
judicial or congressional review, asserting that there’s no limit on how
a president can direct the Justice Department in its prosecutions, even
though there have been longstanding limits in order to protect from the
weaponization, the politicization, of the Justice Department to go
after political enemies.
And so you have a situation now where you
have a president who can commit crimes—and has committed crimes, in my
view, and in the view of Jack Smith—who can commit crimes under John
Roberts’ opinion. Hopefully this will be ultimately repudiated. He can
pardon his co-conspirators, which is what he did when he pardoned the
January 6th people who were convicted. But in essence, he could pardon
any of his cabinet members or others—people on the ground in
Minneapolis, for example—if he wanted to. He could pardon people who
were engaging in illegal activity at his behest in foreign policy, war
crimes, or domestically. And that would be okay under John Roberts. That
is the essence of the destruction of the rule of law. If a president
can break the laws, and he can order people to break the laws, and he
can then give them immunity or pardon them for doing so, basically no
law can hold.
And on top of all that, you know, it’s John Roberts
who swears in Donald Trump on January 20th, 2025, where Donald Trump
takes an oath to uphold the Constitution, to defend the Constitution.
And yet John Roberts has just allowed Donald Trump to violate the
Constitution in that immunity decision. A lot of people haven’t read the
Constitution all the way through. I’m certain Donald Trump has never
read more than maybe a sentence of it. But there are two duties in
particular of the president in Article Two of the Constitution, and one
is to uphold the Constitution. And nothing could be further from
upholding the Constitution than breaking the law, than violating our
criminal laws. And so John Roberts orchestrated this. It is a truly
destructive decision that puts us all at risk.
They end on an upbeat note, talking of a reform movement that is working against these issues -- but all in all, I think "terrifying" is a good adjective to describe the article.